• Craig Payne posted a new activity comment 3 years, 8 months ago

    In Australia, the situation is somewhat interesting. There are no rights to free speech enshrined anywhere; but there is a ‘freedom of expression’ that is somewhere in the law. But that ‘freedom of expression’ does not extend to issues of public order and public health.

    I not that familiar with the laws etc, but from what I understand no one…[Read more]

  • Craig Payne posted a new activity comment 3 years, 8 months ago

    Ms Tenpenny is being very disingenuous:

    1. She originally said she was coming to Australia for a holiday and was then asked to give some talks. Then why has she now cancelled the trip given the talks have talks have been cancelled?

    2. The threats are being made by the anti-vaccine supporters (ie her supporters); they threatened the person…[Read more]

    • “She preaches free speech, but anyone posting a pro-vaccine comment or the screenshots of the threats to prove who they are from on her Facebook page, gets them deleted. Is that not the antipathy of free speech that she preaches?”

      No, it’s not. Editing the content of people who post in one’s own space is just that. She’s not disparaging…[Read more]

      • Yep, you have every right to tell someone, “You may have free speech, but not on my lawn.” This, however, does not absolve you of the **responsibility**, nor does it suggest a strong sense of either ethics, or morals, if your method of handling someone who does show up to speak is to not merely tell them to leave, but to erase the existence of…[Read more]

        • In Australia, the situation is somewhat interesting. There are no rights to free speech enshrined anywhere; but there is a ‘freedom of expression’ that is somewhere in the law. But that ‘freedom of expression’ does not extend to issues of public order and public health.

          I not that familiar with the laws etc, but from what I understand no one…[Read more]

        • Sorry, but that position is total, privileged horseshit. If I have a space dedicated to what I believe/practice/etc. I am in no way responsible for holding up your entitled interpretation of what free speech means to you (namely that you have the right to blather about whatever you want wherever you darn well feel like).

          Suggesting that one’s…[Read more]

          • Wow… See, I have no problem with banning someone who is persistently ranting, or posting irrelevant things, or disruptive, etc., as long as the “reason” they get banned is still there. My *problem*, and the reason I find a blanket deletion, or denial, of a person’s posts abhorent is that, yes, I am in the rather privileged position of actually…[Read more]

          • Case in point, The Food Babe.

            Dare to disagree and your post will disappear but the “refutation” of your point will not. While technically not a violation of your freedom of speech it is most definitely unethical and cowardly cowardly to boot.

          • Yes, that’s double cowardly.

            Don’t know how that happened but I’m on my phone so…

          • Kagehi: “I am in the rather privileged position of actually having a clue, most of the time,”

            I’m sure you do, but so do most people who feel entitled to speak wherever and whenever they feel. I’m sure you and the crazy Jesus guys on Union Square (sf) can go back and forth all day over who actually is more entitled to spread the Clue, but all…[Read more]

          • mrmisconception: “Case in point, The Food Babe.”

            Another case in point: Anita Sarkeesian. Amanda Marcotte. These are women who for a variety of reasons moderate or disallow any discussion in their spaces because of the outrageous behavior of the posters who feel entitled to say whatever they want however they want. They’re also called…[Read more]

          • So, would it be ethical to remove poor reviews from your website? How about removing only reviews that would poorly affect your product or products that you like but not for those of competitors or those that you don’t like? Would it matter how big your website is? And if so where does the file drawer effect lie?

            Just trying to figure out where…[Read more]

          • There is a huge difference between disallowing those who are attacking your person and those who disagree with you and I think you know that.

          • mrmisconception

            Making a Manichean argument then accusing your opponent of thinking in black and white is not going to get you the ‘Good Faith’ award for argument.

            You are either for the arbitrary imposition of speech into whatever space the speaker feels the need to speak in or you’re not. Since you are arguing for the former I’d call you…[Read more]

          • Interesting, you have just called me a hypocrite for making an argument I didn’t make and then said that I accused my opponents (believing that to be you perhaps?) of thinking in black and white. I actual said that things aren’t black and white so I’m really not sure what you’re on about with that.

            Could you please show where I said that site…[Read more]

            • mrmisconception: “Could you please show where I said that site owners do not have the right to remove comments?”

              Could you please show me where I said that you said that? Don’t put words in my mouth and don’t build straw men to topple because you can’t defend your own arguments. If you can’t be bothered to check to see if what you are writing…[Read more]

          • Snort.. Yeah, real convenient for you – you have no F-ing clue, at all, what I know, or may have expertise on, where, or what I have ever posted, what sort of comments I normally make, or even if, other than in this one case, I would be in total agreement of you, but.. because I disagree with your absurd assertion that post deletions, especially…[Read more]

            • “you have no F-ing clue, at all, what I know, or may have expertise on…”

              Irrelevant. I didn’t even insinuate that you’re not the smartest person in the room, rather I inferred and wrote that you do, in fact, have a clue. What I suggested was that you’re asking for a world where you can shove your opinions on everybody, just like the Jesus…[Read more]

          • variable – Wow, so you’ve called me a hypocrite (or the more passive/aggressive “I’d call you a hypocrite if I thought you were actually taking the time to think these things out”), said I put words in your mouth, and threw out the “I wins the internet” trump card of straw man; you are projecting big time here.

            I made a comment about how I f…[Read more]

          • Irrelevant. I didn’t even insinuate that you’re not the smartest person in the room, rather I inferred and wrote that you do, in fact, have a clue. What I suggested was that you’re asking for a world where you can shove your opinions on everybody, just like the Jesus guy.

            So.. You intentionally interpreted what I said in the worst possi…

            [Read more]

            • You’ve gone from my objection to this: “I have never been comfortable with any place that opted to delete someone else’s words, regardless of what those words are,” to saying I “intentionally interpreted what I said in the worst possible way you could,” even though every example I gave falls explicitly under the umbrella of your s…[Read more]

          • I didn’t change my stance at all. You, right from the start, misinterpreted my meaning.

            • Kagehi, Feb 1: “Because of this, I have never been comfortable with any place that opted to delete someone else’s words,”

              Kahegi Feb 7: “I am not “uncomfortable” with people doing such a thing,”

              You bring considerable heft to an intellectual discussion Comrade Kagehi.

          • In fact, you still don’t get my meaning. I am not “uncomfortable” with people doing such a thing, I think its morally repugnant that they do so.

          • Well, gosh, I changed my statement from “uncomfortable” to “morally repulsed by”.. I am so sorry for failing to be clear about it… What was you point again, because… it seemed to be accusing me of wanted to force feed others opinion, when my objection was that some people deny, with every method at their disposal, the existence of anyone with…[Read more]

    • 3. I don’t think either of you have a strong hold on what free speech is, to be perfectly honest. That’s not really the point here, anyway.

  • Craig Payne became a registered member 3 years, 8 months ago