• Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Good point. Some doxxers hope doxxing will result in a mob making their victim’s life horrible, but most doxxers, I suspect, are caught up in the moment and don’t realize that the psychological consequences of mobbing are horrible—so horrible that you shouldn’t wish them on your worst enemy. Depression is a common result. Some people who’ve been m…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    I haven’t denied racism, and as for that stats, I’ve given you the option; if you want to leave out the Hispanic folks who identify as white, you can, and there are still twice as many white people in poverty as black. Now, it seems kind of racist to not let people identify as they wish, but if you want to say those Hispanic people are wrong to…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Regarding Somerville’s derailing, I entirely agree. But I suppose it’s all about the many forms doxxing can take, so the mods get to call it as they please.

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Those are the words of my “victim” who, at the time, was using her legal name on public posts on her LJ, and whenever she went to a convention, she announced which panels she would be on, using her full legal name, so anyone who could Google could easily find her. The notion that she was afraid is very silly—she was trying to damn me by making i…[Read more]

    • “Sometime after that, I got this anonymous comment: “Coffeeandink should really take the “Do not engage” post down. Because every time someone links to that post and dredges up the issue yet again, her name and identity come up again as well. And if she really wants to remain anonymous (though half the internet knows her name by now), const…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Are you thinking of the European form of identitarianism? I was speaking of the US form, the sort that’s been critiqued by people like Adolph Reed Jr. and Walter Benn Michaels. Reed writes about identitarians here: http://nonsite.org/feature/django-unchained-or-the-help-how-cultural-politics-is-worse-than-no-politics-at-all-and-why

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    I’ve noticed that identitarians turn abusive quickly. When you don’t have history or science on your side, insults are all that remain.

    I’ve also noticed that insults tell you more about the person giving the insult than the person getting it. You would do well to read more about race, gender, and class. I recommend starting with Adolph Reed…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    It is easier to go through life treating people as types rather than individuals. Hmm. Identitarianism almost demands it.

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    I agree. In fact, I would say that “equality with no thought of fairness” is neither equality nor fairness. But identitarians have many special meanings for words, so it’s possible I’m missing your implication. Can you unpack that a little?

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Sigh. You and Coffeeandink made your histories of events that were conducted in public on the internet. In response, I’ve made mine to show what you’ve omitted—that’s how history is recorded. Unlike you, I have not banned anyone from pointing out my mistakes of fact or interpretation; anyone’s welcome to comment at my sites, and I welcome c…[Read more]

    • “You are outing me after having claimed you would stop. You are outing me after people have told you it is wrong and dangerous. You are outing me knowing nothing of my circumstances. You are outing me having been warned it could expose me to physical violence, sexual abuse, personal harassment, and professional and personal hardship.”

      That’s…[Read more]

      • Those are the words of my “victim” who, at the time, was using her legal name on public posts on her LJ, and whenever she went to a convention, she announced which panels she would be on, using her full legal name, so anyone who could Google could easily find her. The notion that she was afraid is very silly—she was trying to damn me by making i…[Read more]

        • “Sometime after that, I got this anonymous comment: “Coffeeandink should really take the “Do not engage” post down. Because every time someone links to that post and dredges up the issue yet again, her name and identity come up again as well. And if she really wants to remain anonymous (though half the internet knows her name by now), const…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    You’re on the side that accepts Critical Race Theory and intersectionality, the identitarian approaches to justice that were developed and promoted by bourgeois folk at schools for the economic elite. It’s no surprised that you prefer to believe people who are like you.

    Essentially, you understand power the way Malcolm X did in 1963 while he…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    “I’m X, but–” may be the English language’s most revealing sentence structure.

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Most of the bad things done in the world are done by people who are convinced they’re righteous.

    And yes, Somerville decided to share her notion of who I am once I showed up. So?

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    And that’s a fine example of how confirmation bias works.

    • I think you’re confused about how confirmation bias works. I sought out information on both sides, and noticed that you don’t understand the importance of intersectionality and critical race theory. That’s not confirmation bias. Confirmation bias is noticing only that some racists dislike someone, and assuming that person must not be racist,…[Read more]

      • You’re on the side that accepts Critical Race Theory and intersectionality, the identitarian approaches to justice that were developed and promoted by bourgeois folk at schools for the economic elite. It’s no surprised that you prefer to believe people who are like you.

        Essentially, you understand power the way Malcolm X did in 1963 while he…[Read more]

    • Equality with no thought of fairness is not equality.

      • I agree. In fact, I would say that “equality with no thought of fairness” is neither equality nor fairness. But identitarians have many special meanings for words, so it’s possible I’m missing your implication. Can you unpack that a little?

    • No, I don’t think so. I’ve got better things to do then argue semantics with someone who incorrectly equates identitarians with loaded ideas about “social justice warriors”.

      I know the type and I’m not going there.

    • You think you know everything but you are a fool.

      • I’ve noticed that identitarians turn abusive quickly. When you don’t have history or science on your side, insults are all that remain.

        I’ve also noticed that insults tell you more about the person giving the insult than the person getting it. You would do well to read more about race, gender, and class. I recommend starting with Adolph Reed…[Read more]

    • Abusive, seriously? You are identifying me with a racist movement that I have nothing in common with and me calling you a fool is abusive?

      Do me a favor and fuck off!
      Oh, and don’t go doxxing me on the way out.

    • And BTW, I think you’ve proved Ann Sommerville correct sufficiently at this point.

    • You used a word that I was unfamiliar with and the first few definitions I found were the European version, so yes that was the one I was speaking of.

      But, having read (part of, I’ve got shit to do) the article you linked to and some of your blog it appears you have decided that SJWs are the equivalent, and nothing more, then teenagers on…[Read more]

    • How can you look at a system which produces poor people in Hispanic and black populations at ~2.5 times the rate it does in the white population and deny that there is some sort of endemic systemic racism there? Further, if you want an example of confirmation bias, combining the numbers of whites and Hispanics in poverty to deny systemic racism…[Read more]

      • I haven’t denied racism, and as for that stats, I’ve given you the option; if you want to leave out the Hispanic folks who identify as white, you can, and there are still twice as many white people in poverty as black. Now, it seems kind of racist to not let people identify as they wish, but if you want to say those Hispanic people are wrong to…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Ah, I see what you’re saying, and I agree about two pseuds in the same forum.

    However, Somerville’s doxxing involves a woman whose legal initials are, if I remember correctly, MD, and Somerville’s attempt to dox her as the person behind the stgrb web site is entirely about legal identities, not pseuds.

    And, yes, who started a fight has…[Read more]

    • I’m going to fundamentally disagree with your final statement. Striking the first blow in a fight between an unjust power and those oppressed is righteous if you are oppressed.
      In addition, saying “she started it!” is ignoring the fact that you weren’t identified in this thread until you showed up and self-identified. I say this because I was…[Read more]

      • Most of the bad things done in the world are done by people who are convinced they’re righteous.

        And yes, Somerville decided to share her notion of who I am once I showed up. So?

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Technically, “exposing sock puppets” is doxxing: a pseud is a pseud, and people who use pseuds often have more than one.

    As for using “SJW”, I’m a great fan of social justice workers like Dorothy Day and Dom Helder Camara, people who treat everyone with love and respect as they work to end poverty. I’m not a fan of the “social justice warriors”…[Read more]

    • Saying that pseud X is the same person as pseud Y is NOT doxxing, especially since holding two pseuds simultaneously is quite often against forum rules.

      And “well she started it” proves nothing of who is right.

      • Ah, I see what you’re saying, and I agree about two pseuds in the same forum.

        However, Somerville’s doxxing involves a woman whose legal initials are, if I remember correctly, MD, and Somerville’s attempt to dox her as the person behind the stgrb web site is entirely about legal identities, not pseuds.

        And, yes, who started a fight has…[Read more]

        • I’m going to fundamentally disagree with your final statement. Striking the first blow in a fight between an unjust power and those oppressed is righteous if you are oppressed.
          In addition, saying “she started it!” is ignoring the fact that you weren’t identified in this thread until you showed up and self-identified. I say this because I was…[Read more]

          • Most of the bad things done in the world are done by people who are convinced they’re righteous.

            And yes, Somerville decided to share her notion of who I am once I showed up. So?

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Wise words. Add confirmation bias and tribalism to the fight-or-flight instinct that arises in wartime (which includes flamewartime), and it’s a miracle humanity has survived this long.

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Oh, as for Somerville and her friends’ claims about me, I answer them here: http://sjwar.blogspot.com/2014/12/how-i-became-misogynist-white.html

    My apologies to everyone who thinks Somerville’s been derailing this discussion. I suppose I could ignore her, but a surprising number of people are willing to accept allegations without investigating…[Read more]

    • You intentionally use the term Social Justice Warrior to insult and minimize people, and oppose critical race theory. Your own words damn you pretty effectively. I’ve read your words, and they tend to lead me to believe your critics. I say this as someone with no experience on either side until yesterday.

      • And that’s a fine example of how confirmation bias works.

        • I think you’re confused about how confirmation bias works. I sought out information on both sides, and noticed that you don’t understand the importance of intersectionality and critical race theory. That’s not confirmation bias. Confirmation bias is noticing only that some racists dislike someone, and assuming that person must not be racist,…[Read more]

          • You’re on the side that accepts Critical Race Theory and intersectionality, the identitarian approaches to justice that were developed and promoted by bourgeois folk at schools for the economic elite. It’s no surprised that you prefer to believe people who are like you.

            Essentially, you understand power the way Malcolm X did in 1963 while he…[Read more]

        • Equality with no thought of fairness is not equality.

          • I agree. In fact, I would say that “equality with no thought of fairness” is neither equality nor fairness. But identitarians have many special meanings for words, so it’s possible I’m missing your implication. Can you unpack that a little?

        • No, I don’t think so. I’ve got better things to do then argue semantics with someone who incorrectly equates identitarians with loaded ideas about “social justice warriors”.

          I know the type and I’m not going there.

        • You think you know everything but you are a fool.

          • I’ve noticed that identitarians turn abusive quickly. When you don’t have history or science on your side, insults are all that remain.

            I’ve also noticed that insults tell you more about the person giving the insult than the person getting it. You would do well to read more about race, gender, and class. I recommend starting with Adolph Reed…[Read more]

        • Abusive, seriously? You are identifying me with a racist movement that I have nothing in common with and me calling you a fool is abusive?

          Do me a favor and fuck off!
          Oh, and don’t go doxxing me on the way out.

        • And BTW, I think you’ve proved Ann Sommerville correct sufficiently at this point.

        • You used a word that I was unfamiliar with and the first few definitions I found were the European version, so yes that was the one I was speaking of.

          But, having read (part of, I’ve got shit to do) the article you linked to and some of your blog it appears you have decided that SJWs are the equivalent, and nothing more, then teenagers on…[Read more]

        • How can you look at a system which produces poor people in Hispanic and black populations at ~2.5 times the rate it does in the white population and deny that there is some sort of endemic systemic racism there? Further, if you want an example of confirmation bias, combining the numbers of whites and Hispanics in poverty to deny systemic racism…[Read more]

          • I haven’t denied racism, and as for that stats, I’ve given you the option; if you want to leave out the Hispanic folks who identify as white, you can, and there are still twice as many white people in poverty as black. Now, it seems kind of racist to not let people identify as they wish, but if you want to say those Hispanic people are wrong to…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    If Somerville hasn’t deleted the post or made it private, you can find an example of her doxxing at her blog: http://blog.logophilos.net/index.php/2012/08/the-unbearable-unravelling-of-sockpuppetry/

    Whether Somerville’s doxxing is accurate, I don’t know or care. The owners of the site in question deny it:…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    In part, I agree with Somerville: tactics always matter. No matter how you justify something, you are what you do. For example, torturers are torturers, no matter how good their intentions. So a doxxer is a doxxer, and doxxing should never be done lightly.

    On the other hand, Somerville is leaving out some key elements when she tells her story…[Read more]

  • Will Shetterly posted a new activity comment 3 years, 2 months ago

    Has anyone added up the doxxings and death threats on each side of Gamergate? I’d love to know the winner—or loser, depending on your POV.